Our next item of business is consideration of correspondence that we have received from the Scottish Government and Rape Crisis Scotland on access to court transcripts for survivors of rape and sexual offences. I refer members to paper 4. I will begin by placing on record the committee’s thanks to one of the survivors, who we met informally in November 2021, for her bravery in telling us about her experience of the criminal justice system and for raising the important issue of the lack of access to court transcripts for survivors of rape and sexual offences and how that can impact on their recovery.
I very much welcome the commitment made by the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs in her letter to the committee, and by the First Minister last week, to consider a pilot to support access to transcripts for complainers in sexual offences cases.
I seek members’ views on the correspondence that we have received.
I thank Rape Crisis Scotland for its correspondence. I may, perhaps, have a contrary view to the convener’s, because I do not welcome the letter from the cabinet secretary. I welcome the letter itself but not its content.
This is an issue that we as a committee have been raising for a very long time, since the committee’s inception. I am sure that this is not the first time that the issue has been raised in Parliament. Although the tone of the letter from the cabinet secretary is helpful and positive—and I do not doubt the cabinet secretary’s intentions—the second to last paragraph is considerably lacking in detail. The cabinet secretary says that she is
“committed to exploring a pilot to support access to transcripts for complainers in sexual offences cases, initially. However ... it is still at the very early stages and initial discussions with the SCTS are taking place”.
I thought that those discussions had taken place. Given that this issue has been raised repeatedly by this committee and other stakeholders on numerous occasions over a prolonged period, I do not understand why the discussion is still yet to happen or is in the “very early stages”.
The letter also implies that the forthcoming Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill, which is before the Parliament, may be a platform for providing a solution to this in the long term. I do not believe that we need primary legislation to resolve this matter; it just needs a bit of will and a bit of way. We have talked about this in numerous committee meetings. We understand the financial considerations involved in improving the situation. We have heard straight from those directly affected by this, in great volume.
When you read the survey responses that were sent to us by Rape Crisis Scotland—we put on record our thanks to the victims who have given permission for those to be used—you see two common themes coming through. One is that very few victims feel like they remember their day in court, due to the trauma involved, and they believe that accessing transcripts would form part of their closure—they might be seeking justice in other ways, through civil cases and so on. Many had a difficult experience in court, many believe that they were not treated particularly well, and in some extreme cases, they believe that there were miscarriages of justice. We should take note of the language that they have used and their responses should give us more impetus to push the Government on. The comments made include things like:
“A lack of access to my transcript has hindered my ability to complete a complaint against a case. It was cost prohibitive. I heard there was no point. It has allowed me not to achieve closure. Part of me is still seeking justice”—
and so on and so forth.
One went on to say:
“I had no idea that I was allowed to have access to them.”
There is a shocking spectrum of opinions on this and I suspect that a small number of those involved have tried to access the transcripts.
I feel that the letter says, “We are having a conversation with the courts. It is at the very early stages and we will get back to you.” That was what we heard last time we had correspondence from a previous cabinet secretary, and it is what we heard from the cabinet secretary before that. The content of the letters is always positive in saying, “Don’t worry, we are looking at this issue”, but we never, ever see any detail. It pains me to say that because I believe that the new cabinet secretary will take this issue very seriously and will try to make progress on it, but we are not seeing progress. We are seeing one-page letters promising action that we never see.
People out there want concrete detail about how this pilot will go ahead, what it will look like and how it will be communicated to stakeholders and victims. Quite simply, I would like to see more done faster.
I agree with Jamie Greene about the Rape Crisis Scotland communication. I do not think that there is an issue about anybody thinking that court transcripts should not be available. I do not take such a gloomy view of the letter, to be honest. The cabinet secretary says:
“I look forward to working with the committee ... also as we progress the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill”
I think Jamie Greene was perhaps conflating the two. The cabinet secretary is saying that she is looking forward to working with the committee on the issue of court transcripts but also that that huge bill is coming down the line. She just mentioned that. I am not sure that the two should be conflated. In a couple of paragraphs she stated her commitment to doing this.
We could follow this up by asking if we could get a timescale so that we are clearer on that. However, on the whole, the letter is just stating what we had thought was happening—I know that this has gone on for a long time. For me, the issue is when the pilot is starting. More detail on that would be fine. However, I do not think that it is as gloomy as Jamie Greene is making out.
No one else wants to come in. Thanks very much, Rona and Jamie. I have noted your comments about timescales and I do not disagree. We seem to have been looking at this for quite some time. If it is helpful for members, I flag that last week, in response to a question that I asked in the Conveners Group meeting, about progress on access to court transcripts, the First Minister said:
“The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs was planning to write to the committee this week expressing the Government’s commitment to supporting a pilot to support access to court transcripts, initially focused on complainers in sexual offence cases. So it is an issue that I am well aware of, given my previous role as a cabinet secretary for justice. We will absolutely commit to a pilot focused initially on complainers in sexual offence cases.”
I am certainly happy to hear that. That is where we want to be. I absolutely take the point about timescales. If members wish, I am happy to write to the Government seeking a bit more clarity on timescales. I also suggest, if members are in agreement, that we send a copy of the cabinet secretary’s letter to Rape Crisis Scotland for its information and to Scottish Women’s Aid and Victim Support Scotland, which have all been interested in and active on this issue, for their information. Do members agree with that proposal?
Thank you very much, convener. The update from the First Minister is very helpful. It perhaps even goes a step further in its language than the letter that we received. As well as timescales, perhaps we could seek a broad sketch of what the pilot might entail so that we can manage expectations among stakeholders. If there is a large cohort of people who feel that this would be of advantage to them but later discover that the pilot is limited in nature, that will be disappointing for them. To make sure that we are heading in the right direction, this should be made as broad and comprehensive as possible.
Yes, I am happy with that. It is appropriate that we keep track of progress and ask to be updated as and when there are developments. Thank you very much indeed.
That concludes our business in public for this morning. We now move into private session.
12:12 Meeting continued in private until 12:32.